tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10760709.post116066901682813840..comments2023-10-31T10:28:50.158-04:00Comments on The Zeray Gazette: Doctrinal UptightnessJohnhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04854543617806427302noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10760709.post-1160714828149310482006-10-13T00:47:00.000-04:002006-10-13T00:47:00.000-04:00There are definitely areas where "Let each man be ...There are definitely areas where "Let each man be fully convinced in his own mind" applies, while there are other areas where "if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to that which you received, let him be accursed" applies. The problem is where is the line drawn between them? And why are so many people "drawing outside the lines", in both directions?Olorynhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17042191530693591797noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10760709.post-1160703611009246372006-10-12T21:40:00.000-04:002006-10-12T21:40:00.000-04:00Great article.Great article.Richard Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03566665843266611623noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10760709.post-1160702332947758472006-10-12T21:18:00.000-04:002006-10-12T21:18:00.000-04:00I didn't say the flower pot thing, but if it gets ...I didn't say the flower pot thing, but if it gets Codepoke to agree with me, I'll take credit for it.<BR/><BR/>Dale...<BR/><BR/>Terribly simplistic, ill-informed, and naive? This, of course, is a distinct possibility. When I claim to have the big answers, I'm usually lying or trying to impress the ladies (which, you know, is sort of the point of the post... I'm becoming more comfortable with not having the big answers down pat). In this case, though, I don't exactly see where I'm being simplistic, ill-informed or naive. The "ill-informed" part confuses me most. Where was my information inaccurate? You may not agree with what I make of the information, in which case I think the word you're looking for is "wrong."<BR/><BR/>Just trying to be helpful (and, okay, maybe a little snotty).<BR/><BR/>You would have been even more accurate, I think, had you called me "terribly unoriginal." The whole post is really just a long-winded way of asking that very cliche question, "is Gandhi in Hell?" (And lets take it as a given that Gandhi's goodness wasn't all in his "works," but in a deep love for and faith in God.)<BR/><BR/>Or, if the Steve doesn't understand all this talk about Trinity and grace and the divinity of Christ, but just has some abstract notion of wanting to love God, is Steve in Hell?<BR/><BR/>Or (another real life example, the grandmother of a professor I had) if a young Jewish girl's village is wiped out in pogroms and people wearing crosses on their necks and praising Jesus do awful things to her family and friends, and she grows up to have a deep, committed spiritual life but, in part due to the circumstances of her youth, never has any particular interest in becoming a Christian, is that girl going to Hell?<BR/><BR/>A person who can answer "yes" to any of that too easily is someone I probably won't ask to watch my dogs, and their version of God is one that I feel a little sorry for.<BR/><BR/>Telling me that that's the way it is because scripture says this and that is sort of like defending scriptural inerrancy by pointing to 2 Timothy 3:16.<BR/><BR/>Of course, there are people smarter than me who see it differently.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10760709.post-1160693096801078622006-10-12T18:44:00.000-04:002006-10-12T18:44:00.000-04:00Ditto what Codepoke said.Ditto what Codepoke said.Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04854543617806427302noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10760709.post-1160690632527027952006-10-12T18:03:00.000-04:002006-10-12T18:03:00.000-04:00Hey, I'm with Jockeystreet on this one. If Steve c...Hey, I'm with Jockeystreet on this one. <BR/><BR/><I>If Steve calls a flowerpot 'Mike' and talks with it, then there are problems. </I><BR/><BR/>That's a really good line. <BR/><BR/>The question is whether we are alive in Christ. Are we born from above? If the answer is yes, then there's no flowerpot in the discussion. <BR/><BR/>It is impossible for the spirit in me to be led by the Spirit in me to fellowship with Belial. So, if I see a sacrament a little differently than you do, that doesn't mean God is going to have a problem with me. So maybe we could try having fewer problems with each other?<BR/><BR/>Doctrine guides our walk through life, so the mo' better we can get it, the better. Amen! But if you and I disagree on a couple points, it should not impact our relationship to each other.Kevin Knoxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16788817477327510023noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10760709.post-1160685244033200852006-10-12T16:34:00.000-04:002006-10-12T16:34:00.000-04:00If doctrine is only stuff in our heads and no more...If doctrine is only stuff in our heads and no more, then I see little reason to quibble over it. In my account, however (see The Recovery of Doctrine in the Contemporary Church; Baylor Univ. Press), real doctrine always results in action. Mere beliefs might not have much impact on the world. Actions surely do, however.<BR/><BR/>Is that enough reason to "quibble" violently over doctrine? Maybe some doctrine, though surely not Christian doctrine. The story of Jesus (life, death, resurrection, etc.) upon which our Christian doctrine is parasitic seems to preclude violent confrontation over doctrine.Richard Hhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04787755397416393855noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10760709.post-1160684577238048182006-10-12T16:22:00.000-04:002006-10-12T16:22:00.000-04:00Jockeystreet wrote..."Why is it that we want to at...Jockeystreet wrote...<BR/><BR/>"Why is it that we want to attribute to God an ego so fragile that it can't tolerate well-meaning believers getting a few facts wrong? Why is it that we believe that God's self-worth is so conditional that mixing up some of the biographical information is a sure way to earn his wrath?"<BR/><BR/>This seems terribly simplistic, ill-informed, and naive. While I'm not going to quibble about "getting a few facts wrong," I would say that what those "facts" are means a great deal. It was God who said not to have any other gods before him. It was God who called himself a jealous God. It was God who called his people time and time again to turn from false gods and false beliefs. <BR/><BR/>There is content to our faith. We don't have to get a 100 percent on a theology test before entering heaven, but if we are justified by faith in Christ through grace, then that limits the playing field considerably.<BR/><BR/>We ought to attempt to avoid the old canard which asks, "who are we too say this and that about God." A faithful Christian will seek to say what God has revealed about himself. It has nothing to do with God's poor self-esteem. However, if God has said something about himself, we probably ought not ignore it.Dale Tedderhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13415830327038660144noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10760709.post-1160683561929659512006-10-12T16:06:00.000-04:002006-10-12T16:06:00.000-04:00If I talk to Laura Bush and Cindy Sheehan about Ge...If I talk to Laura Bush and Cindy Sheehan about George Bush, I will get radically different descriptions of his character, his intentions and just about everything else about him. Are they talking about different people or radically different understandings of the same person? Obviously, the latter.<BR/><BR/>Muslims, Jews and Christians all worship the Creator God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, but their understanding of Him and His will for his servants are only understated when described as "radically different," especially WRT to the identity and mission of Jesus.<BR/><BR/>Calling THAT God is Allah is "cool," I guess, but misunderstanding His will for us, not so much.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10760709.post-1160675439429780622006-10-12T13:50:00.000-04:002006-10-12T13:50:00.000-04:00No, I don't think so, because Islam has a radicall...No, I don't think so, because Islam has a radically different understanding of Jesus. It rejects the divinity of Christ and the atonement which came with the death of Christ.<BR/><BR/>Jesus had a 'way', but Jesus was also a person who did great acts with himself. Following the 'way' of Jesus will not save us; Jesus alone can do that for us.<BR/><BR/>Unless, of course, you're just talking about the Arabic word for "God" without the Islamic theology attached to it. In that case, yes, one can call God 'Allah'.Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04854543617806427302noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10760709.post-1160674685389612742006-10-12T13:38:00.000-04:002006-10-12T13:38:00.000-04:00So, if one is seeking the one true God - the God w...So, if one is seeking the one true God - the God who defines God's own Self as Love, the God who wants to save us from our own fallen humanity and follow in Jesus' Way - if one is seeking THAT God, but calls that God, "Allah," is that cool?Dan Trabuehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14303597141397042669noreply@blogger.com