tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10760709.post116371082936884446..comments2023-10-31T10:28:50.158-04:00Comments on The Zeray Gazette: Men and Contemporary Worship, Part IIJohnhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04854543617806427302noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10760709.post-1163788301472843182006-11-17T13:31:00.000-05:002006-11-17T13:31:00.000-05:00This is about personal preferences, not masculinit...This is about personal preferences, not masculinity and femininity<BR/>AMEN!<BR/><BR/>Now on the question of Alt worship...?Sallyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01759963926280667938noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10760709.post-1163767078759931032006-11-17T07:37:00.000-05:002006-11-17T07:37:00.000-05:00This has been a fascinating conversation, and one ...This has been a fascinating conversation, and one with a lot of energy around it for a lot of people it appears.<BR/><BR/>I think David is an interesting role model for men here. This is a guy who was tough and brave as they come, but he also was foolish and - from reading the Psalms - even weepy at times.<BR/><BR/>And, of course, there is Jesus who had more physical courage than I can imagine and more tenderness.<BR/><BR/>My only additional comment at this point is that I am glad to see John stood up for the honor of his rabbits when they were depending on him.John Meunierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15640046073453219165noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10760709.post-1163735793118227562006-11-16T22:56:00.000-05:002006-11-16T22:56:00.000-05:00Wow, seems to be a lot of interest in this questio...Wow, seems to be a lot of interest in this question. My point about traditional hymns was simply meant to respond to those who think I cannot possibly have a whole-person experience of God's grace in forms they consider boring or cold. Not that I was suggesting you thought otherwise, but I have encountered many folks who do have a judgmental attitude toward forms of worship that I find very powerful (and not just because they think old forms don't reach the new generation.)<BR/><BR/>Just a couple more thoughts. <BR/><BR/><EM>I say of the heart. For neither does religion consist in Orthodoxy, or right opinions; which, although they are not properly outward things, are not in the heart, but the understanding.</EM><BR/><BR/>Truly, one is not saved by right opinions but by the gracious power of God. But grace gives us no more reason to be careless about our thinking than about any other aspect of our lives. (Just an observation; not that I'm suggesting you think otherwise.)<BR/><BR/>And the whole question of the heart leads us to the question of Biblical anthropology. Now there's a can of worms.<BR/><BR/>Regards ...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10760709.post-1163734697565055152006-11-16T22:38:00.000-05:002006-11-16T22:38:00.000-05:00Surely there must be some place in the middle.Or b...<I>Surely there must be some place in the middle.</I><BR/><BR/>Or better, places for the various 'flavors' of masculinity to all be able to be themselves within the church. G. K. Chesterton makes an argument in <A HREF="http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/130" REL="nofollow">Orthodoxy</A> that balance at times consists not of finding a middle place between two extremes (which produces a mixture of the two), but of finding a way that the extremes can co-exist and be themselves. This may apply here.<BR/><BR/><I>John Wayne-style masculinity is a mixed bag. The characters that he played in movies had one quintessential quality: self-reliance.</I><BR/><BR/>Is that because the tough-man aspect <B>has</B> to be self-reliant, or is it because <BR/>the fall has twisted it that way? And if the latter, can we discern a valid 'untwisted' tough-man character which represents a valid need? Ministry to men of this bent may have to be two-fold: meeting the valid underlying need, while teaching on doing away with the twist.Olorynhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17042191530693591797noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10760709.post-1163727285127187252006-11-16T20:34:00.000-05:002006-11-16T20:34:00.000-05:00People may be replying to arguments that have not ...People may be replying to arguments that have not been made. There is a perception that if men aren't going to the Episcopal Chrurch, liberals will say something is wrong with men; if women aren't going to the Baptist Chrurch, liberals will say there is something wrong with the Baptist Curch. Add words like 'some' and 'disproportionatly' as needed.Sanctimonious Hypocritehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01114785511109626904noreply@blogger.com