I need to do a lot of cleanup work around the church, and we presently don't have a custodian.So I went down to the Home Depot where there are always Mexican laborers (undocumented, of course), hanging about, looking for work.
To my surprise, they didn't want to work at all. No interest whatsoever. I offered each one a bright, shiny quarter for a mere day of cleaning the building and dragging off brush, and they simply wouldn't do it.
I guess that there are some jobs that Mexicans just won't do. It's outrageous that anyone would be so lazy as to refuse to do such work. That's why we need to open our borders up to workers who are willing to do the jobs that
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Since you seem to have plenty of time on your hands, why not clean the church yourself? And since you seem to be such a cheapskate, you should love saving your bright shiny quarter. Let's hope the fate that Christ pronounced upon the inhospitable somehow passes over you (Luke 10).
I'll pull down the subtlety a few notches, Christopher. One commonly advanced, but rather irrational argument for open borders is that there are many jobs that Americans won't do. Americans are presumably too lazy to do to hard work like pick fruit, cut lawns, or other hard labor. It's not true. Americans will do all of these jobs -- if you pay them enough. If you pay enough money, even Bill Gates will pick fruit.
But there are many jobs that Americans won't do -- if you don't offer enough money. There are also jobs that Mexicans won't do -- if you don't offer enough money. Like clean up a church for a quarter a day.
Many open borders advocates like to say that we absolutely must import Mexican labor in order to keep the American economy going. That's incorrect. The jobs currently held by illegal Mexican immigrants will be filled by Americans. But employers will no longer be able to content themselves with slave-labor prices from south of the border. Too freakin' bad for them.
Hey, John, you're not the only one who has this problem.
Point well made John... now about those shiny quarters...
I live in an area that has many produce farms. These farms use immigrant labor. I work in construction. Some construction trades are now mostly immigrant labor. I have made several observations over the last 20 years in both the produce workers and the construction workers. There are no Americans who are willing to do the jobs. The immigrants are making MORE money than Americans in many cases. The Americans will work in air conditioned fast food restaraunts for minimum wage but will not work in the hot sun finsihing concrete for $10 per hour. The Americans will work for minimum wage for farmers where the job is operating an air conditioned tractor all day but will not pick tomatoes for a per-bucket price that for a hard worker equals much more than $10 per hour.
It is not true that the immigrants are working for slave wages. In our area, the immigrants are getting very good wages and there are more jobs than there are workers willing to fill the jobs.
American kids are no longer taught a work ethic. They are taught to look for a position, not a job and will settle for an easy job for low pay rather than a difficult job for high pay or for a job that requires them to start at an entry level and work their way up.
Offer enough money, and you'll find plenty of people who will work in the hot sun.
So we bankrupt the small business just so we can pay underperforming workers a premium because they think they are entitled to a job that doesn't require sweating.
The thing is the farmers and construction companies ARE offering premium wages and the only folks who are interested in the jobs are hard working immigrants. The locals have an attitude that they are above working a hot, sweaty job.
Obviously it's not a premium wage, or you find motivated workers. In fact, if it's really about sloth, you wouldn't have to the pay the illegals $10 an hour. You could pay them a dollar a day.
It's just supply and demand.
In a perfect world, premium wages would produce premium work. In construction it is about production and budgets within a job bid; in farming it is about market prices and getting crops picked at optimum time. This is not utopia - this is reality. Paying an hourly wage is not realistic when picking crops; paying a per-bucket or per-bushel rate is. The earning potential is limited only by the workers themselves.
Even beyond this, John, what would you consider to be "premium"? I work for a trucking company in which the driver is paid by the mile. Running within legal constraints, a driver can make $50,000 per year, give or take. Yet far too many would rather sit idle and complain about "low wages" while refusing work. That market being what it is, drivers can leave a trucking company and almost literally walk across the street for the "sign on" bonus.
Having worked in construction, I see exactly what Tony sees. Those of us who didn't mind doing the work ended up doing ALL the work; the slackers got paid the same rate per hour because of - I say again - legal requirements.
Incentive is the key, and the market dictates the size of the incentive. Also don't forget that the laborers' money is free and clear - they get paid however much or however little they choose to work. The business owner, however, has to pay everyone and everything else BEFORE he or she can even think about getting paid.
Also, this is a capitalist society. The name of the game is to grow capital (make money). The most money is made when production is maximized and cost is limited. If I were beginning a farm, I would follow the advice of those in the field (like Tony) to best make my farm, my produce and my earnings profit. This seems like a discussion where the real observations of those in the field trumps the idealizing of theorists.
Okay, let's just open the borders wide open and drive wages down to the basement. Let's permit our nation to be colonized and conquered by Mexico.
I'm a capitalist, but capitalism is not a suicide pact.
*sighs and shakes his head*
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