See update at the bottom of this post.
There were many responses to my critique of Asbury. One Asbury student linked to my post in Table Talk, the in-house discussion board at the seminary. An avalanche of furious replies came in my comments section here, Table Talk, and my e-mail in-box. I was simply astonished at the intensity of the venom spewed at me, mostly consisting of personal insults. I deeply regret that although I tried to keep the discussion appropriate, I sometimes jumped into the mire of bitter sarcasm in response. I should have kept to the higher standard of Christ and turned the other cheek.
The general consensus seemed to be that it was inappropriate of me to air my thoughts on the subject on the Internet, where non-Asburians could see them. Above all else, Asbury's reputation must be protected from any negative opinion. After all, prospective students might read my post and learn of these problems.
Although I understand this view, I find it hard to buy into the "cover up" mentality. I'm not even sure how to argue against the presupposition that all problems should be hidden. So in the discussion, I was and am rather dumbfounded by this point of view.
UPDATE: A polite Asburian has e-mailed me and I feel greatly humbled by his persuasive words. I really should have dealt with this situation privately first before broadcasting my criticism all over the Internet. My criticism is valid, but my manner of expressing it was not. I apologize to the Asbury faculty for my immature and unChristian conduct.
FINAL UPDATE: Wow! Nothing clears one's head like staying up all night to study Greek. I can't believe that I let a bunch of whiny brats in Wilmore scream at me and degrade me for the past couple of days. And I just took it because I figured that as a Christian I had to be a doormat for their abusive behavior. What the hell was I thinking?
Well, that's over now. No more dramatics. No more trying to make peace where there is no reciprocation. We now resume normal programming. I have a humor piece in the oven; it should be ready on Wednesday morning. I think that you'll like it. Until then, my time belongs to the Greek language and my wife. Blessings on you all!
Sunday, February 12, 2006
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18 comments:
It's amazing what blogs are these days. They are truly a revolutionary medium in today's world. I had just read over on Steve McCoy's blog (Reformissionary...he's a Missional Southern Baptist) about how someone's blog had inadvertently brought up issues for voting a trustee out of office in the SBC.
I think the same issue is applying here in a sense.
I think if you would've communicated that you had talked to the powers that be and received no response after multiple replies, others might have been more compassionate. Of course at the same time, those who really had a great experience at Asbury might be more inclined to "defend."
There are a lot of things I've wanted to post, but can't trust certain people who I know read my blog, so I put in my private one instead. I think there's NOTHING wrong with being vunerable and honest, I just know I'm inviting some interesting comments when I posted something like you did.
With all of that said, thank you for your boldness and opinion. It is an "opinion," and you are never afraid to give it.
Shalom to you!
Don't we encourage people to 'Speak truth to power?'
John,
Knowing nothing about Asbury, I cannot speak to your concerns one way or the other. As long as these observations were fair and not the result of, say, a really bad day (and we all have them) that slanted your viewpoint, you have nothing to be concerned about.
Criticism directed toward me always hurts but once I settle down and let the words sink in, they only cause me to look a little deeper at what I had said or done to determine if I could have offered a different approach.
I sincerely hope your schooling gets better, but be prepared for a little (more) backlash.
sorry to hear you got beat up on this one. certainly some responsibility is bore on both sides, but those of us who have read, talked, & forged friendship with you over the past year know that you are well meaning, faithful, convicted person, but yet have a supportive & sarcastic nature too. we took this the way i'm sure you intended it. with frustration yes, but not evil or malice. you've defended and spoken highly of your school on many occassions, i wonder where those folks slamming you were then? it's a shame.
John
I am simply amazed that you would catch the kind of flak and insults from the Asbury crowd that you report. That is not in line with the standard of Wesleyan holiness and Biblical Christianity one is supposed to encounter at ATS. Sounds like you had legitimate concerns that needed to addressed and corrected at the Orlando campus. Blasting you for bringing them up is disappointing.
By the way, I am an Asbury grad and I then went to Fuller, I found it to be by far superior to Asbury.
Thank you for the feedback, everyone. Mike said, "I think if you would've communicated that you had talked to the powers that be and received no response after multiple replies, others might have been more compassionate." This makes a lot of sense, and he is not the first to express this to me (only the most polite). I would find it easier to accept such criticism from the Asburians if it were balanced with some acknowledgement that I had reasonable expectations of the seminary.
I wish that I hadn't written the post because I've learned so much about the people of Asbury that I wish that I didn't know.
Danny, thanks for the pointer. Lorna wrote very well and from the heart.
I don't know you, but I have many of the same criticisms. I understand your reasons for apologizing and respect them. Howecer, most of the criticisms of your post, remember, are coming from those with vested interests in Asbury. Be sure to take it with a grain of salt.
John,
I would not characterize your venting of your frustration as "unchristian" but merely human. Give yourself some grace -- I would NEVER judge you that harshly -- and I'm talking about the way you are judging yourself.
And seminaries are just human institutions. More so than churches, even if they exist to equip the proto-minister for ministry in the real world. And a big real world lesson here is -- people can be sensitive around things they are passionate.
And another lesson -- are pretty dern public. Anything you write on one can be brought up at random moments to bludgen you. Be careful.
{{hug}}
As one of those people that "attacked" the post on Table Talk, I am appreciative of the honest apology. I also welcome a balanced appraisal of things at Asbury Seminary. Since I am at the Wilmore campus, I can't speak absolutely to the frustrations at the Orlando campus. There are issues to be resolved on both campuses, and it is good to talk about them. However, many of us on Table Talk are current students whose have no vested interest in protecting the seminary; we simply defended against what we believed to be wrongful claims. The experiences mentioned has clearly not echoed that of some of the rest of us, and I'm sorry for that. But I also encourage the rest of the commenters not to blindly agree that those of us posting our thoughts that were "critical of the criticism" were malicious until you've actually read those posts for yourselves. I would also be interested in Craig's thoughts on Fuller, since he says it is "far superior" without giving any detail. Thanks!
John,
I don't think you were or are in the wrong. You did not single out individual professors, instead you dealt with problems of the ExL Asbury campus as a whole. The seminary is a corporate and public entity which merits public criticism. You did not call the institution ungodly or unchristian, quite the opposite actually. You simply said it is poorly administered. That looks to be a fair critique.
As you indicate, your criticism has been met with insult and spite. Is this a christian's reaction to criticism? No, it is not. Where is the their love? Where is their grace?
It seems that many of the Asburians taking offense are from Wilmore and haven't set foot on the Florida campus. Yet they over-generalize their own experiences and accuse you of falsehood and over-statement. This seems like poor judgement at best.
Others cast aspursions on your faith and, while judging you with every sentence, have the gall to call you "graceless", unchristian, or a hypocrit.
Your criticisms were very human, but not unreasonable or unchristian. The Asbury reaction is often exactly the opposite. If I am left with a negative reaction to Asbury, it is not because of you but because of the behavior of some of the school's seminarians.
john,
after reading your original post concerning this, i don't think you have anything to apologize for.
i can understand why some might get bent out of shape after hearing what you had to say, but i think you may have shed some light in an area where there was oversight. now the institution, faculty and students ought to address it. anyone who got upset with you for noticing problems and shedding light on them (even if it was out of frustration) should be thanking you.
i was more put off by your unfair caricature of garrett than your critcisms of asbury.
garrett's emphasis is not scarily unitarian/pantheist/New Age theology- it does however place a high emphasis on traditional "sacramental" theology and worship.
With profs there like Ruth Duck (liturigical worship), Steve Long (radical orthodoxy), Rosemary R. Ruether (liberation/feminist theologian), and Dwight Vogel (sacramental/liturgical theology)I'm not sure that new age, unitarian or pantheist is the right description. But you may no profs there that i don't.
shalom bro,
jonathon
The biggest problem I had will your comments is they seem to be very unfounded. I spoke to several students now on the Wilmore campus and nobody could even come close to the experience you seem to be having. The other problem is now you are seemingly playing the 'victim' in all of this. Well that intself again I think is wrong. Yes you are 100% entitled to your opinion and the expression of that opinion in what ever forum you choose, but if your going to make such claims they for one should be very factual and two you should be able to support them with clear evidence.
I think that I could provide as much evidence as your friends: memory.
Unless, of course, you're calling me a liar.
John, you said some things that you felt strongly about. Some people got their feelings hurt. Why? Is Asbury now an idol for people to worship?
I simply see an honest opinion here. If you were an outsider putting down the seminary without any basis, things might be different. But you are blogging about your own experiences in your own seminary.
The fact of the matter is that a lot of people have an opinion about your "harsh" words about something they evidently find so dear. The problem with this scenario is that they can have opinions about what you say, but you can't have an opinion to begin with.
Or maybe it's that you can't post your opinion? But I thought that's what blogs were for.
Just my opinion mind you.
With that said, maybe we all ought to sing a rousing chorus of Kum-bah-yah followed with a great big bear hug. :)
* Just kidding - I don't sing. ha ha
Thank you for the many voices of support. It's been a very bad couple of days, but so much brighter thanks to friends.
With regards to the cyberjackals of Asbury, I am reminded that I am called to holiness even if (instead of "only if") others do not follow.
That's rather hard, but I think that I'm up to it.
I guess that I'm not going to be a part of the Asbury online community. That's disappointing, but okay.
Wahoo! I got comment number 20!
:)
It is indeed a wonderful connexion we have here. I know that without the support of Methobloggers in the past few days I would have lost my ability to function. The connexion really means something solid to me now.
I don't participate in the online community at Candler nearly as much as I do here, for these same reasons. The world is much bigger than just one seminary and their particular ethos.
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